Quote from hagenisse :

Obviously, a human with one pedal vs a system that can brake each wheel independently isnt really a fair match..

People can brake better then abs if conditions are (more or less) constant like on track, however on public road, you never know exactly how much grip there is and how exactly the brakes will perform when hit hard after hardly being used for some time. That' s why on public road having abs is much saver for most people.

Also, what you describe is a stability-control system, abs is a much simpler system. If just reduces brake-force to avoid the lockup of any tyre and it would be very dangerous to this on one side of a car at a time. Left and right-brakebalance must always be exactly 50,0-50,0 or you gonna need a:littleangin case of an emercency stop. (except if your car also has a stability-system equipped)

Quote from TexasLTU :

1964 Dodge Charger, Audi R8, and any Volvo model (S80 or XC90 would be best)

Any volvo? chiptuned v70R Classic offcourse! Topspeed 270km/h with just engine tuning and great accelaration figures. But for racing, in lfs must be assumed shocks,dampers,tyres and brakes are replaced by racing stuff.. Stock parts are very reliable, but are not suitable for racing.

However, i think there are cars which would be better to add-ons for lfs.

Quote from dan12s :

yeah we already do have the f1 car its called bf1 so if you want it buy s2 like G!NhO said

Yes, the current f1 car in lfs does not have grip(doubt the real thing is that bad), current f1 cars pull over 2 g's in very low speed corners and consistently over 4 g' s in fast corners. Also current F1 cars are much easier on the throttlle while getting out or corners. Full throttle at much lower speeds then is possible with bf1 of lfs. In general most likely muchhhhhh better to drive. Would be very nice if the current bf1 will be replaced with an 2008 F1 car(and all code for TC be banned from lfs! suggestion to add it again, become bannable offence )

But i want also to ad an suggestion for a car, the new a1gp car is very nice:
Rip form wikipedia:
"On 11 October 2007, A1GP and Ferrari announced a six year collaboration on the new generation of A1GP cars. The new "Powered by Ferrari" car is a modification of the Formula 1 Ferrari F2004 chassis with a V8 Ferrari engine producing 600 bhp[26]. The car was officially revealed in Southern England, and driven for the first time by John Watson in an inaugural event in May 2007. Michelin will supply the tyres for the new car[27]."

The v8 has a displacement of about 4.2 liters, it is close to F1 racing speeds and modified to make close racing posible without severe downforce loss caused by driving just behind the car in front. What i have seen from last race, these cars are indeed able to stay close in corners. Thats why they would be great for lfs, much more fun than racing then an F1 car. Who cares that the a1gp is about 5-10 sec slower each lap then the current f1 car.

Quote from Alistair :

it's not stupid look at these 2 cars
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/wp- ... 8hdifap_valencia_2007.jpg
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/wp- ... /audi_r10_lemans_2007.jpg
they fight for the le mans win and they are both diesel and the seat touring cars in the wtcc and btcc wich are winning races regularly are TDI
also the diesel cars are a lot quiker out of the corners. the power you get from a good diesel engine is relentless and theres allways the fule econamey. personally i think we should have a diesel lmp1 car in lfs
and when it comes to noise the lmps are very close to being silent but the volvo 5 cylinder turbo diesel makes a wounderfull noise

Diesels cars are only competitive, because they are allowed to have much higher turbo pressures. The famous torgue of a diesel, is just because diesels always are fitted with an turbo and petrol engines usually not. Get a standaard 2000cc petrol engine with a good (not high pressure) turbo and it will blow away any 2 liter diesel engine. Espacially in torgue in low-rev range! Al the way up to where an diesel engine would blow-up. And don' t get confused by that the diesel might have at some rev a high peak in torgue, that says nothing.

If you compare high performance turbocharged 2 liter petrol engines to high performance 2 liter diesels, the diesel can only match the torgue but will have only about 55% of the HP output of the petrol engine. So overal, the petrol is in other class of performance. Ofcourse, this will also be true for fuel usage

So what is the use for lfs to have a diesel in it? I think none! I think it is just a question/wish to have more turbocharged cars in lfs.

The volvo 5 cylinders(with ford-added downgrades), nice engines (diesel and petrol) but outdated

Quote from AndroidXP :

The devs are aware that the heating model is not finished - it's a WIP, after all. Nevertheless, it would be a lot more helpful if you'd give a bit more detail other than saying "it's wrong." Some specific examples would be nice.

WOW Finally, The lfs community accepted that the real world should not be changed as how things are in lfs. AND there is really something wrong with the tyre-temps in lfs.

Phew i am not crazy :elefant: Although i was more or less told so everytime i posted something simular to about the tyre-modelling(espacially about heating..) is not good although irl they are rarely having overheating issues with tyres.

I am really looking forward for the next patch, hopefully some serious issues will be solved in the next patch.

I; m out of lfs until the next patch. I'm so frustrated i have use total weird settings. i' ve had enough of it.

In one one word, COOL!!!!! Would love to drive this new car Great boost for lfs too since a lot of people love this car for its looks(and i assume it drives great as most new cars do)

Quote from Woz :

So you PERSONALLY drove these cars did you so you knew what you did with the clutch etc and then took the tyre temps after the run. How do you have ANY idea about what you just spoke about unless you had access to all the data on the cars you probably looked at only?

99% of people that cook the clutch in LFS do so because they are either too lead footed or DO NOT put the clutch in when then spin. IRL if you spin you put the clutch in to protect it. How often do you do that in LFS?

No LFS is not perfect BUT most of the problems reported are still between keyboard and chair in that people DO NOT drive as they would IRL. Too many people push too hard and exploit LFS and its unlimited setups for extra speed instead of just driving the car then wonder why things go wrong

Well did any of you ever drive an F1 car, did the engineers who built it? Who designed the tyres?? I think not. Apperently it is not required to drive one. But listen carefully to what the drivers tell and what you see etc. does seem to give a very good idea what is going on and don t jump conclusions. Here we do assume things: "tyres must be really as bad and troublesome, irl F1 drivers are lying about tyres, why don' t they complain more about overheating? We have it in lfs! So they must have also this problems, It can' t be true tyres irl are that good.."


Using r4 tyres? nobody uses very hard compounds irl nor should we in lfs.

@tristancliffe:
" F1 cars can take similar bumps in LFS to those in Rotterdam"
Well if i tell a fbm should be able to take at low speeds a mild bottom out, i was told to be crazy and out of my mind. Did the youtube movies of flying formula cars help to get that right?

"0-100 runs in LFS won't kill tyres or clutchs. In fact, in this regard LFS tyres heat up too slowly." True, on some cars the clutch is too strong and on some too weak.

"We don't have the same compounds as real life F1, so perhaps consider using the next compound up? As we are unlikely to see specif..."
True, but it can' t be that hard to change some things to get the tempatures bit down in lfs. It is very clear irl f1 drivers don't have any overheating problems and such problems are very rare in most racing classes. Usually its lower raceing classes sometimes a drivers is telling they had to be carefull not to wear tyres out too fast(not too sliding, not too much pusing). It is rare i hear a driver complain about overheating tyres, it does happen but it is rare and in some classes overheating is more common then others.

However something should be made a lot weaker then it is now in lfs, tyres should wear out much quicker. Espacially the soft compounds.

Last edited by Bluebird B B, Tue, 19 Aug 2008 07:26.

Today in Rotterdam there were/are nice shows of race-cars including an F1 car(renault).

What is most noticable:
Clutches are not that weak in real life
The F1 car can take really high bumps at high speed
Tyres do not severly overheat as fast from severel burn-outs, powerturns etc. They did wear out quick, but the severe overheating and complete loss of grip as what happens in lfs, dit not happen irl.

Same for gtr-like racing cars, doing several 0-100km/h-0 runs for show. Did they kill their clutch and/or tyres? NO!

Last week there was a news article about F1-tyres. Drivers were complaining about it was impossible to get soft-tyres to optimal tempature and were begging bridgestone to give them the super-soft compounds. In lfs, tyres on bf1 are phrone to catching fire just by looking at them.. what a difference with real world..

So now i am even more convinced lfs is very wrong about how weak tyres and clutches are.
I am still hoping it will be fixed soon!

An real modern autmatic gearbox comes with a lot of software and a nice computer to run its software...and simulate this in a race-simulator? Not a good idea, to expensive to build into lfs i think and no added value to the simulation.
-100!

Good idea! +1

On kv-tracks, it is very annoying the speedlimit is just 80kph. 100kph or 120kph would be a lot better.

Hello all,

I don' t see much complaints anymore about the tyres. I have been driving the FO8 and bf1 since patch Z. I am very dissapointed the tyres-overheating problem is still there. There is not one track where R2 tyres can be used on the bf1, irl on some tracks very very soft tyres were used in 2006

Same for FO8, it really feels like the FO8 and BF1 are using the same quality/spec tyres as the fox, which is not realistic.

What is most noticable, the tyres don' t cool down on straights. So on tight tracks with a realistic setup (R3, not much camber and not max pressure but "real life" pressure) tyres tent to heat up slowly lap after lap.. and get overheated after about 5 laps. Whatever you try to get it fixed... irl it takes a lot of rolling resistance to get this effect, i really think real tyres are better then the ones in lfs.


Please don' t reply about telling tyres heat up at high speeds, at monza f1 often also use soft compound! So that effect is not that bad irl and i am aware of that effect espacially if tyre-pressure is too low.

Quote from Esrever :

Ah thanks for that.

I just got my new laptop with Vista last friday.
First time using Vista and I'm thinking I'm doing something totally wrong

This really has nothing todo with vista. Lfs with patch y31 works great on vista too. In fact, any version i had on vista ran fine. All errors and crashes(very rare) i had were because of bugs in lfs or overheated graphics card and not related to the OS.


I only tested the fzr until, because i read the center of grivity was lowered. It now feels more like a gtr/supercar Instead of the suv drive i used to be. Great! But i have to admit i haven' driven much gtr ' s since the 4wd was adjusted to be just as fast as the rwd gtr' s.(4wd gtr should be banned! or have a huge handicap)

Quote from Stigpt :

yeah - if you take the time to look at your speedo when you do a normal corner in RL, you'll see that 90% of them are done at... 30kph. and THAT is usually fast enough to get woman and small children screaming in the back seats... Trust me on that one.
I defy you to do a roundabout (medium sized) @ 50kph.
In south city, the hairpin should be taken at no more than 20kph, and the large long under the highway in SO6 etc... should be done at 50kph maximum.

hmm then i' m really an racing legend on public road That speeds apply are for high suv' s. Hairpin can easily be done at 40kph, but only if the road is closed for normal traffic. Otherwise you might kill people who are coming from the other side.

Most sedans/sportcoupe' s with high performance tyres can handle those speeds easily BUT only if you know what you are doing.

I disagree,

If tyrewarmers are banned, tyres compound will be adjusted to make the tyre perform in a wider range of tempatures. They are doing it right now for the coming rule change in F1 !


Maybe remove them only on road cars

Quote from Glenn67 :

The Alps is a bit too cold for serious brake fade testing I think you all need to come to Bathurst or Hidden Valley if you want to get serious. Were not too bad at BBQ's and piss ups either

The Alpes cold? at this time of the year? Currently serious high altitudes are needed to find any below zero tempatures(celcius) I guess at least as high has 3500 meters at the moment. Just watch "tour the france" It can get really hot during summers.

Quote from Dajmin :

The thing about VOIP is it really only works well for team games. I've seen the issues that occur during Forza 2 - you either get everyone talking so that it's distracting, or everyone is concentrating too much and nobody speaks at all.

For LFS team events with multiple drivers, everyone would hear them talking. On top of being irritating, this would give away any pit strategies.

I'm normally a supporter of voice chatting in games, but in this case I don't think it would be all that useful.

Strange, in counter-strike very very long ago, they already implemented voice chatting for own team only.

Something simular can be done in lfs. Default, you hear nobody(everbody is muted) unless you allow someone to talk to you.

Quote from PAracer :

Most modern cars have an inertia switch that cuts power to the fuel pump in the event of a crash. BTW, on a Ford Taurus, it's located inside the driver's side rear fender. Good for a prank, or as a way to prevent theft.

Race cars, and prepared road cars generally disable the switch, since bouncing off of curbing, or short offs can upset the switch and stall the car.

Such cars are strictly forbidden and only people with a death wish will disable such switches.
Would be really nasty in a normal crash, the fuel pump happily pumping the fuel out of the tank while the fuel lines might be broken.... Just go adn look for accidents which happend in the old days when such safety systems didn't exist yet...

In a big crash(about 40+km/h) the fuel pump will be turned off on all modern road and racing cars. It may be a bit higher on very high formula-classes, but they also do have automatic (engine)kill-switches.

Last edited by Bluebird B B, Sun, 1 Jun 2008 11:52.

Quote from Technique :

Threshold braking is a necessary racing skill. In LFS, people just set the max braking force so that they can slam the brake pedal down without locking up the wheel. This isn't very realistic. If I use a realistic setting, I'm at a disadvantage. I think this option should be removed from the setup screen.

I'm not quite sure what to do about mouse and keyboard users though... they won't be able to complete a lap if they lock up the wheels around every turn.

search button:
http://www.lfsforum.net/showth ... highlight=max+brake+force

UAC is off.
It is a useless functionality on home-system.

The only way microsoft can make a system secure is by shutting off functionality

Quote from Scawen :

The thing that worries me about LFS on Vista from LFS is the auto updater. You know more about this than me because I don't have Vista, and I'm very happy to to have it... but in Vista's default mode it doesn't allow LFS to simply download and install an update. I know it comes up with dialogs and so on asking the user about running as an administrator and so on. I'm sure there is some logic behind it but it's not easy for new users to understand..

I can' t remember i had such problems, i will note any problems and report them next time the auto-updater has something to update.

Quote from Scawen :

Sounds like some stupid issue with Vista being over protective as usual to the point where you can't use your own computer.

Never had any problems here with lfs on vista home premium 64 bits. Lfs is stable and frame-rate is very good.

Great patch!!!!!
Also the intro/main menu screen is much better.
Replay options Great !

Quote from danielzzz :

Ok,yet another example - BMW E36 M40B18 (1.8 115hp).Wheelspins very good.New tires - GoodYear Eagle F1 DS-G3 !!!
And XRG accelerates slower than my Fiesta (Fiesta Si 1.6-16v)

It takes about 2000+km until F1' s get their maximum grip if used normally on public road.
For years i'm using F1' s, difference in grip with standard road tyres is huge.
But there might be other brands which sell excellent tyres too.

Quote from danielzzz :

Hello to all.
I dont know how much of you but I'm sure many have noticed that cars are too weak.For example - my dad's car is a Nissan Primera P11-144 with an QG18DE engine - 116hp but when i smack the gas pedal it starts wheelspining on 1st gear.

BUT the XRG doesn't wheelspin even when I use the clutch it does it for a small amount of time(my friend's clio does a better wheelspin).

And the other thing:
the rpm meter shows for example 4k - but the car sounds like it's in 2,4k.I don't know if I'm the only one that thinks that way,but I'm sure I'm right.

And why don't you put an option to remove rev limiter and damage the engine ? That would be great fun(I can't do it on my car of course).

PLEASE don't attack me.

A 116bhp non-turbocharged engine and wheelspin in dry roadconditions?What kind oftyres are on the car? it sounds like they don' t grip very well